Old digital camera electronics drawing current?

[Peter]

I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.

The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.

It is the same with a new replacement battery.

Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

[Lasse Langwadt]

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

after nearly 20 years it might be time to think about getting a new
camera ..

[Nick Odell]

Post by Lasse Langwadt

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

after nearly 20 years it might be time to think about getting a new
camera ..

As the owner and user of lots of old cameras - some which are older
than I am (which is saying something) - I completely understand the
OP's point of view.

Nick

[David Taylor]

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

Peter,

If it didn't happen before, it /shouldn't/ happen now. Are you sure that there
is a physical on/off switch you've missed?

However, if the batteries are 19 years old they may be the problem rather than
anything in the camera itself. If the batteries are no longer being
manufactured what you buy as "new" may have been made many years ago, and long
past their working lifetime (3-5-7 years?).

Yes, there could be an age problem with the capacitors in the camera, but these
capacitors can sometimes "reform" if run with a steady voltage for some time.
Can you keep the camera on while the batteries are being charged, i.e. is there
in-camera charging?

Apart from the optical zoom, your phone camera my well be better.

[Nick Odell]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 05:32:01 +0000, David Taylor
<david-***@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

<big snip>>>

Post by David Taylor
Apart from the optical zoom, your phone camera my well be better.

Whilst this is true, there's a big difference. Your PHONE will
probably take bloody good pictures but YOU are free to take
good/bad/awful pictures in your own way when you use a camera.

Nick

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Peter
Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

Sadly, yes

[Martin Brown]

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.

IF the battery is as old as the camera then I am surprised that it still
holds any charge at all. Lithium batteries typically last around 10-15
years or so in regular use if you look after them (and <2 years if abused).

Post by Peter
It is the same with a new replacement battery.

Then it is clearly something in the camera. Most likely would be some
contamination allowing leakage current to track from one terminal to the
other. It could also be that the circuit board is slightly hydroscopic
and moisture has made the whole thing leaky.

Post by Peter
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

Ageing circuitboards can develop cusious faults over 20 years due to
residual traces of flux and moisture ingress and capacitors failing.
(although the latter usually fail by losing capacitance or swelling up
and then leaking their vital fluids everywhere). The latter could well
explain your observation that there is continuous battery load.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Martin Brown
Ageing circuitboards can develop cusious faults over 20 years due to
residual traces of flux and moisture ingress and capacitors failing.
(although the latter usually fail by losing capacitance or swelling up
and then leaking their vital fluids everywhere). The latter could well
explain your observation that there is continuous battery load.

Probably the most common fault in modern electronics is a teensy surface
mount ceramic capacitor shorting out. Or showing high leakage. There
aren't many electrolytics used these days at all.
Unless you have the time, the patience the kit and steady hands its not
worth it.

Can probably pick up a replacement camera on ebay for peanuts

[Nick Odell]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:42:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Martin Brown
Ageing circuitboards can develop cusious faults over 20 years due to
residual traces of flux and moisture ingress and capacitors failing.
(although the latter usually fail by losing capacitance or swelling up
and then leaking their vital fluids everywhere). The latter could well
explain your observation that there is continuous battery load.

Probably the most common fault in modern electronics is a teensy surface
mount ceramic capacitor shorting out. Or showing high leakage. There
aren't many electrolytics used these days at all.
Unless you have the time, the patience the kit and steady hands its not
worth it.
Can probably pick up a replacement camera on ebay for peanuts

FSVO Peanuts. Between about £30-£120 when I looked on eBay just now.

If I really liked an old camera enough, I would probably shell out
that amount to get one that worked but the truth is, when I find a
vintage camera I like, I usually buy a second one[1] and then a
third[2] at the same time if the price is right.

Nick
[1]One set in the UK and the other set in Argentina to save me lugging
loads of gear both ways across the Atlantic a couple of times a year.
[2]Just in case No.1 or No.2 breaks down

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Nick Odell
On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:42:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Martin Brown
Ageing circuitboards can develop cusious faults over 20 years due to
residual traces of flux and moisture ingress and capacitors failing.
(although the latter usually fail by losing capacitance or swelling up
and then leaking their vital fluids everywhere). The latter could well
explain your observation that there is continuous battery load.

Probably the most common fault in modern electronics is a teensy surface
mount ceramic capacitor shorting out. Or showing high leakage. There
aren't many electrolytics used these days at all.
Unless you have the time, the patience the kit and steady hands its not
worth it.
Can probably pick up a replacement camera on ebay for peanuts

FSVO Peanuts. Between about £30-£120 when I looked on eBay just now.

How do you value your time?
Can you fix it yourself?

Post by Nick Odell
If I really liked an old camera enough, I would probably shell out
that amount to get one that worked but the truth is, when I find a
vintage camera I like, I usually buy a second one[1] and then a
third[2] at the same time if the price is right.

Exactly. I am running some old kit that Just Works and I cannot be arsed
to change.
If it breaks I would try and find a second hand one to replace it

Bu if my old 6MPx Nikon body fails i wont replace it. There are far far
better ones around to fit the same set of lenses at hald the price.

[Tim+]

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

Probably unfixable (economically). Have you tried just removing the battery
when not in use?

Tim

[croy]

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.

Are you *sure* it didn't do this? Could it be that you were using the camera more back then,
and therefor, charging more frequently. Does the camera have an option to put a date-stamp on
pictures you snap? If it does, that means it has a clock running, even when the camera is
"off". The clock will use a tiny bit of current.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2024 09:29:14 -0500) it happened Paul

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

I have a device here, with 4000 series CMOS in it.
One day, it started playing games.
The circuit, is an "auto-off" circuit.
Well, unfortunately, it uses capacitors to time
a ten minute interval (film caps, not electrolytics).
And something about those acted up, causing the
power switching circuit to malfunction and drain the battery.
I don't know what exactly fixed it. I had removed
the battery for a week or so, hoping leakage currents
would drain any portions of the circuit not working
properly. That didn't help. But maybe some transient
of putting the battery in and removing it, reset something.
It's been several years since that happened, and the
auto-off has been fine the whole time.

Sometimes battery connection get dirty, I had that with an AAA battery recently,
cleaned it worked again.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2024 09:29:14 -0500) it happened Paul

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

I have a device here, with 4000 series CMOS in it.
One day, it started playing games.
The circuit, is an "auto-off" circuit.
Well, unfortunately, it uses capacitors to time
a ten minute interval (film caps, not electrolytics).
And something about those acted up, causing the
power switching circuit to malfunction and drain the battery.
I don't know what exactly fixed it. I had removed
the battery for a week or so, hoping leakage currents
would drain any portions of the circuit not working
properly. That didn't help. But maybe some transient
of putting the battery in and removing it, reset something.
It's been several years since that happened, and the
auto-off has been fine the whole time.

Sometimes battery connection get dirty, I had that with an AAA battery recently,
cleaned it worked again.

Yes. Always, always check the battery contacts. I bought a Pentax DSLR
which sold for £9.99 marked "dead." Absolutely fine after cleaning the
battery compartment very, very well. I was willing to punt £9.99
because, having accidentally blown up the odd Pentax camera in the
past and having discovered that usually only certain parts were
destroyed by my doing stupid things, I was pretty sure it could only
have been the battery contacts.

Nick

[geoff]

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

I have a device here, with 4000 series CMOS in it.

CMOS very susceptible to electrostatic damage ....

geoff

[Paul]

Post by geoff

Post by Peter
I still use a Casio EX-Z60 compact camera from around 2005.
The problem is it discharges the lithium battery within a couple of
weeks when left (unused) on standby. It never used to do this.
It is the same with a new replacement battery.
Why is this? Is there something in the electronics (capacitors perhaps?)
which degrade over time and cause a current drain?

I have a device here, with 4000 series CMOS in it.

CMOS very susceptible to electrostatic damage ....
geoff

When I designed with 4000 series at work, I had the
misfortune to discover that the factory database
had 13 or 15 suppliers of the chips. Which meant
defensive design was a bitch.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:4000_Series

At the bottom of that page, you can see they demonstrate
three front ends. There might be some differences in the
sensitivity of those. And if there really were 15 suppliers,
that's 15 possible front ends that you'd have to research.
They might not all have had the same rating.

Paul