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[Wally J]

I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)

Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.

It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.

The GIMP is a wondrous tool - but hard to use for people like JR.
What's also wonderful - just as free - and easy to use - is Paint.NET.

The free Windows Paint.NET puts The GIMP to shame in ease of use.
Ease of use <https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html>

The free Windows Paint.NET has functionality that IrvanView doesn't.
Functionality <https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/latest>
(although Irfanview has batch capability that requires Paint.NET plugins.)

The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

[Wally J]

Still - I might splurge on Final Cut Pro - now that it's settled down
into a capable editor - when I buy the new Mac.

It's no longer shocking that the ignorant iKooks know absolutely nothing
about video editing tools out there - and there is a good reason for that.

Do you know why the Mac users _never_ have any idea of competitive tools?
I do.

HINT: *Low-IQ iKooks never read news - they are driven only by marketing*.

DOUBLEHINT:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=final+cut+pro+download>
<https://appmus.com/vs/final-cut-pro-vs-shotcut>
<https://www.shotcut.org/download/>

[Dorper]

Post by Wally J

Still - I might splurge on Final Cut Pro - now that it's settled down
into a capable editor - when I buy the new Mac.

It's no longer shocking that the ignorant iKooks know absolutely nothing
about video editing tools out there - and there is a good reason for that.
Do you know why the Mac users _never_ have any idea of competitive tools?
I do.
HINT: *Low-IQ iKooks never read news - they are driven only by marketing*.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=final+cut+pro+download>
<https://appmus.com/vs/final-cut-pro-vs-shotcut>
<https://www.shotcut.org/download/>

Sorry but free video editors are all trash, garbage, coal compared to
commercial software. Final Cut Pro is a $300 one time purchase (includes all
future updates). A good deal compared to the alternative of paying for a
subscription from Adobe (Business Model: Uber for Recurring Charges). Same
goes with Logic Pro.

On 10/7/23, 9:38 AM, in article

Post by Wally J

The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

It¹s probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.

The feature set is actually about equal to Photoshop Essentials from 20
years ago. Microsoft (Business Model: Uber for PrntScr) updating Windows
killer app, Paint, to include layers means that there is no reason to use
Paint.NET anymore.

Post by Wally J
WebView is impossible to uninstall because it is system software and
comes pre-installed on Android devices.'

WebView : Android :: Internet Explorer : Windows (95 Desktop Update+) ::
WebKit : Mac OS X / iOS :: Chrome : ChromeOS :: QtWebEngine : KDE

[Alan Browne]

Sorry but free video editors ...

Davinci Resolve is professional level. Free for non-commercial use.

It's actually a colour grader that edits (as opposed to an editor that
colour grades).

Steep learning curve. Lots of help (usually in the form of user
YouTubes). Lots of plugins - many of them free (user contributed).

Windows, Mac, Linux.

[Wally J]

My graphics needs are luckily not as demanding as they used to be, but
I've been using Serif's Affinity replacements for Photoshop,
Illustrator, and InDesign for a while now and they get the job done for
way less money and no subscription. I love that there are plenty of
options for those of us who refuse to funnel our budget at Adobe
indefinitely.

I think having competent apps at a *reasonable price for individuals* is
important, so good job for finding that!

The Mac users are always completely ignorant of what's out there for
reasons that should be obvious given their low-IQ and lack of education.

The iKooks fall for every marketing trick because they're all stupid.

For intelligent people, for video editing, you can't beat ShotCut freeware
<https://www.shotcut.org/>

For photo editing, it's too bad that Paint.NET isn't ported to any other
platform, nor is Pinta ready for prime time even after all these years.
<https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/releases>

Krita works on Linux (as I recall) but it's not as good as is Paint.NET.
<https://krita.org/en/download/krita-desktop/>

There are also ways to get ancient versions of PhotoShop if you need it.
But that's a rathole with these ignorant iKooks so just peek at the sig.
--
<https://www.techspot.com/downloads/5727-adobe-premiere-free.html>

C:\> dir /w .\software\editor\pic

[.] [..] readthis.txt
editor.txt
mspaint_shortcut.lnk [artweaver] [faststone]
[fotor]
[fotosketcher] [ghostscript] [gimp]
[imagemagick]
[inkscape] [irfanview] [jsware_crop]
[krita]
[morph] [paint.net] [paintstar]
[photodemon]
[photopad] [pinta]
[vicman_last_good_version] [xnview]
[psp_shareware] [photome] [freehandpaint]
[vector_editors]

[candycanearter07]

Post by Wally J
Krita works on Linux (as I recall) but it's not as good as is Paint.NET.
<https://krita.org/en/download/krita-desktop/>

I use Krita daily and love it.

[Bill W]

Post by Wally J
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

It’s probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Bill W

Post by Wally J
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

It’s probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.

Not even close.

[Wally J]

Post by Alan Browne

Post by Wally J
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

It's probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.

Not even close.

Statements like that, sans a single fact, are why I feel sorry for iKooks.
*The entire belief system of iKooks is always completely imaginary*

Notice the ignorant uneducated low-IQ iKooks _guess_ at everything they say
(because they fall for every marketing trick in the book - that's why).

None of them provides a _single_ fact that backs up their belief systems.

Such as a one-to-one comparison perhaps?
<https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=compare+photoshop+versus+paint.net>
<https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=compare+photoshop+versus+pinta>

Here is the first hit of the PhotoShop payware vs Paint.NET search.
*Paint.NET vs Photoshop: Head-to-Head Comparison (2023)*
<https://www.designbuckle.com/paint-net-vs-adobe-photoshop/>
(Neither wins in all categories - but compare it with YOUR needs!)

Here is the first hit of the PhotoShop payware vs Pinta search.
*Adobe Photoshop vs Pinta : Which is Better?*
<https://appmus.com/vs/adobe-photoshop-vs-pinta>
(Neither wins in all categories - but compare it with YOUR needs!)

Note that it's fine when people decide between tools but what I find sad
is the ignorant low-IQ uneducated iKooks always decide based on no data.

These low-IQ ignorant uneducated iKooks fall for every marketing trick
such as their strong belief "you get what you pay for" which is classic.

HINT: Techron is a trademark for Chevron's products, usually indicating
polyetheramines - where Costco has top-tier levels of polyetheramines - but
people _still_ think that they're getting "better gas" at Chevron - and
don't even get me started on "premium" versus "regular" as most people
don't know the first thing about what an octane rating really indicates.

[Wally J]

Post by Wally J
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

It's probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.

Hi BillW,

My main point was that ignorant uneducated low-IQ iKooks substitute
$'s for brains when it comes time to choosing the best available editors.

Me?
I use something called "intelligence" to test & select the best editors.

I just snapped this screenshot & briefly edited it with Paint.NET freeware.
<Loading Image...>

The time it took from start to finish isn't likely how long it takes for
the PhotoShop payware just to open up to the editing Windows, BillW. (jk)

My point of the screenshot is that what editor you use depends on your
needs, where my needs are to learn what every freeware editor does.

I've tested them all, BillW.
Every single one.

Did I miss testing any freeware Windows/Linux editors you are aware of?
No?

Why not?
HINT: I've tested _every_ free editor ever suggested on these newsgroups.
That's why.

I know you well from the r.p.d newsgroup, and I'm not going to discount
what you just opined - but we have to be careful about the audience here.

We "could" look up well-researched comparisons if it really matters to us.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=paint.net+versus+photoshop>

But most of us (particularly on non r.p.d newsgroups) are NOT professional
photo editors - where most of those have super expensive Apple setups and
even more expensive (over time) subscriptions to the professional editors.

Now, to your point - have you ever _looked_ at that free Paint.NET does?
<https://www.getpaint.net/>

Remember, it's free and PhotoShop isn't, where how much you're willing to
pay for PhotoShop probably depends on how often you use it & what you need.

For most of us, the freeware tools I referenced are just fine, where here
is a screenshot I just took for you that shows my Linux & Windows editors.
<https://i.postimg.cc/TYPRjJyC/editor01.jpg>

And those are just the ones I could fit on a single screen, Bill.
My point is that, for most of us, the freeware editors work fantastically.

You just have to be _intelligent_ when you're choosing which ones to use.

[Wally J]

It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.

I wish I wanted to do something that complex with my photos. I've used
and liked Irfanview on windows and really like Picasa on linux -- 30
seconds or less per photo and I'm happy. I wanted to fix the
perspective on a tall-building shot with GIMP once and ultimately
succeeded, but it was pretty painful. GIMP's idea of 'help' is...
problematical.

The problem in this discussion is the ignorant uneducated iKooks only know
what iMarketing has fed them - none of them exercises independent thought.

While I have tested _every_ free Windows (and Linux, in the olden days)
image editor, CAD editor, video editor, audio editor, format converter,
screen recorder, etc., I've settled, over the years, mostly on the
following good free tools...

1. Image viewer = IrfanView (batch commands are great)
2. Image editor = Paint.NET (puts PhotoShop to shame)
3. CAD editor = Blender (well maintained & fully functional)
4. Video editor = ShotCut (more tutorials than you can shake a stick at)
5. Audio editor = Who wouldn't use Audacity to edit audio files
6. Screen recorder = Tossup between CuteScreenRec & OBSStudio mostly
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

I have tested every free tool ever suggested on these newsgroups.
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.photo.digital>
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware>
<https://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>

And those are the half dozen that I use the most for Windows editing
(most of these tools are also ported to the walled-garden macOS platform).

[candycanearter07]

Post by Wally J
While I have tested _every_ free Windows (and Linux, in the olden days)
image editor, CAD editor, video editor, audio editor, format converter,
screen recorder, etc., I've settled, over the years, mostly on the
following good free tools...
1. Image viewer = IrfanView (batch commands are great)

I prefer the aesthetic nsxiv has.

Post by Wally J
2. Image editor = Paint.NET (puts PhotoShop to shame)

I've used Krita too long to switch..

Post by Wally J
3. CAD editor = Blender (well maintained & fully functional)

Obvious

Post by Wally J
4. Video editor = ShotCut (more tutorials than you can shake a stick at)

Haven't done much video editing, but I'll probably switch from using
KDEnlive anyways.

Post by Wally J
5. Audio editor = Who wouldn't use Audacity to edit audio files

Yep

Post by Wally J
6. Screen recorder = Tossup between CuteScreenRec & OBSStudio mostly

I usually just use simplescreenrecorder for it, might check out
CuteScreenRec to see.

Post by Wally J
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

How does it compare to ffmpeg?


(these are just my opinions)

[Wally J]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

How does it compare to ffmpeg?

Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.

I used to use Super but they went over to the dark side.

Luckily, Handbrake took over - and it's cross platform too.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Wally J

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

How does it compare to ffmpeg?

Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.

Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing for
anything more than a simple conversion.

[Alan Browne]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

How does it compare to ffmpeg?

Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.

Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing for
anything more than a simple conversion.

Handbrake can hand you back the confusion: install the command line
version. (HandbrakeCLI).

I use this as called by a program I wrote sometime back to mass convert
some containers (esp .avi) to .mp4 with h.254 or h.255.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Alan Browne

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

How does it compare to ffmpeg?

Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.

Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing
for anything more than a simple conversion.

Handbrake can hand you back the confusion: install the command line
version. (HandbrakeCLI).
I use this as called by a program I wrote sometime back to mass
convert some containers (esp .avi) to .mp4 with h.254 or h.255.

I've used HandbrakeCLI for many years to automate encoding and tagging
TV series and movies. It's great.

[Wally J]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Wally J
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.

How does it compare to ffmpeg?

Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.

Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing for
anything more than a simple conversion.

I'm glad the European and American patents expired for ffmpeg as it was a
PITA to have to use lame or download the compiled executables separately.

Directory of C:\app\editor\vid\youtube-dl
11/25/2018 04:51 PM 40,929,280 ffmpeg.exe
11/25/2018 04:51 PM 40,816,128 ffplay.exe
11/25/2018 04:52 PM 40,838,144 ffprobe.exe

Likewise, I can't wait for Qualcomm's 5G modem design patents to expire so
that the incompetent Apple chip design team can just copy the damn thing.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Wally J
I'm glad the European and American patents expired for ffmpeg as it was a
PITA to have to use lame or download the compiled executables separately.
Directory of C:\app\editor\vid\youtube-dl
11/25/2018 04:51 PM 40,929,280 ffmpeg.exe
11/25/2018 04:51 PM 40,816,128 ffplay.exe
11/25/2018 04:52 PM 40,838,144 ffprobe.exe
Likewise, I can't wait for Qualcomm's 5G modem design patents to expire so
that the incompetent Apple chip design team can just copy the damn thing.

Tool patents are the worst sometimes.

Also, I'd recommend using yt-dlp instead if it's available.

[Wally J]

Post by candycanearter07
Also, I'd recommend using yt-dlp instead if it's available.

Thanks for that warning - where you are being purposefully helpful,
which I appreciate - since purposefully helpful people are few on here.

To respond in a way that helps others, I use yt-dlp now that youtube-dl has
its issues - where we had a huuuuuuge discussion about this recently in
that the ClipGrab GUIs on all platforms but iOS uses that yt-dlp engine.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClipGrab>

On all my platforms, except on iOS (which can't do thousands upon thousands
upon thousands of things all other platforms do), there's that d/l GUI.
<https://clipgrab.org/>

Given the download GUI (on all platforms other than on iOS) is self
contained, when I ran my "dir /s/a/l/on/b" for "ffmpeg", it was found only
in the old-style command-line folders - & not in the modern GUI folders.

[Wally J]

Post by Wally J
To respond in a way that helps others, I use yt-dlp now that youtube-dl has
its issues - where we had a huuuuuuge discussion about this recently in
that the ClipGrab GUIs on all platforms but iOS uses that yt-dlp engine.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClipGrab>
On all my platforms, except on iOS (which can't do thousands upon thousands
upon thousands of things all other platforms do), there's that d/l GUI.
<https://clipgrab.org/>

Given the r.p.d people are on this, and they might not know anything about
Apple products not being able to do what every other platform does...

I should clarify that on Android, the NewPipe GUI does the download & rip.
<http://newpipe.net>

On Windows, Linux & on macOS, ClipGrab is the downloading & ripping GUI.
<https://clipgrab.org/>

On iOS... there's no GUI for that.
<https://ios.null>

That's why it's funny when I hear iKooks say "there's an app for that",
because that's only true for every platform out there - but not iOS.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Wally J
On iOS... there's no GUI for that.

What Wally (Arlen) is purposely omitting in order to troll is that you
can indeed download YouTube videos with yt-dlp on iOS from the command
line:

<https://share.vidyard.com/watch/YgB5bmBzmMjP1LaaDe5vHw>

Clowns gonna clown though.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Wally J
To respond in a way that helps others, I use yt-dlp now that youtube-dl has
its issues - where we had a huuuuuuge discussion about this recently in
that the ClipGrab GUIs on all platforms but iOS uses that yt-dlp engine.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClipGrab>

Same, it refused to download stuff so I switched over.

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[Wally J]

I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)

Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.

It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.

When I made the switch from Windows (with CorelDraw) to Linux, I was
amazed at how good Gimp was, considering the price difference.

The GIMP is good for many things - but I found it not all that easy to use
to do the three things you do most when you're editing screenshots, but we
have to be careful there are fundamentally image editors & photo editors.

For now, for the purpose of this thread, which isn't necessarily about
image editors or photo editors, I'll lump them along with image viewers.

To further advise those on Linux, I just looked into my software archives
to find these freeware image editors I used to use (long ago) on Linux.
<Loading Image...>

Long ago I had tested _every_ free photo/image editor ever suggested on the
linux newsgroups (centos & ubuntu), some of which, offhand, were The GIMP,
F-shot, KolourPaint, Krita, LightZone, Inkscape, Fotoxx, DigiKam,
RawTherapee, ShowFOTO, Photivo, Darktable, Shotwell, GThumb, Gnome Paint,
Shutter, mtPaint, GTKRawGallery, gThumb viewer, TuxPaint, DrawPile,
MyPaint, Karbon vector viewer, Manch Studios, etc.

Even so, I have to admit, The GIMP is a bit too difficult to use for me.
As is ImageMagick <https://sourceforge.net/projects/imagemagick/>.

The bane of screenshot editing are these three things not in all editors.
1. Easy drawing of open boxes (most do it well, but not The GIMP).
2. Easy texting without having to define anything ahead of time.
3. Easy curved extensible manageable arrows (most do this horridly).

Example from yesterday: <Loading Image...>
*These 2 commands cast your phone into a 2-feet-tall giant on your PC monitor over Wi-Fi*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/vZym07COglY>

However... it has been a long time since my dual-boot CentOS/Windows days,
where, as I recall, Krita was 2nd most useful for screenshot editing needs.
<https://krita.org/en/download/krita-desktop/>

Mostly I had used KolourPaint & F-shot which did screenshot editing well.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rmMg4qp8/free-linux-image-editors.jpg>

[Wally J]

The problem with free software is you often get what you pay for.

That's one of the _dumbest_ concept I've ever heard anyone utter, Alan.
(and yes, I have an MBA)

Very few people understand these low-IQ iKooks as well as I do,
where _that statement_ is classic for their herd mentality decision making.

It never fails that the low-IQ uneducated ignorant iKooks fall for every
marketing trick in the book - where you _never_ get what you pay for.

If any of these ignorant uneducated iKooks had ever earned an MBA, they'd
know about demand curves - where - essentially - you pay what others pay.

What the iKook above is saying is that he can't make his own decision,
so he makes a decision based purely on what other people pay for a product.

Seriously.
that's what he's saying.

He doesn't even realize he's saying that, by the way.
Because he's stupid.

*The ignorant iKooks fall for every marketing trick in the book.*

Just like he said he buys VPN services based purely on the percentage
discount, where I gave the example of the jewelry store marketing tricks.

They can't make their own decisions.
So they follow the herd.

The entire reason they're on Apple products, for example, is that herd
mentality (which is also why they gloat over Apple's profits - as if the
profits affirm their choice in being swayed by iMarketing alone).

Back to the "you get what you pay for", what he's 'alluding' to is that
higher quality products often command a higher price - but not always.

You get what you get.
How much you pay for it depends on what _others_ are willing to pay.

If others are as stupid as you are (e.g., Chevron gas has Techron, right),
then you end up paying more for Chevron gas than for Costco Top Tier gas.

It's no longer shocking how these herd-mentality iKooks fall for every
marketing trick in the book - including the "you get what you pay for".

What's next?
You can pay me now, or you can pay me later?

In summary, you can pay what others pay for free product which is as good
or better than almost all the proprietary payware product out there.

The only thing you need... is intelligence.

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Wally J

The problem with free software is you often get what you pay for.

That's one of the _dumbest_ concept I've ever heard anyone utter, Alan.
(and yes, I have an MBA)
Very few people understand these low-IQ iKooks as well as I do,
where _that statement_ is classic for their herd mentality decision making.
It never fails that the low-IQ uneducated ignorant iKooks fall for every
marketing trick in the book - where you _never_ get what you pay for.

Arlen, your previous claim (with which I probably agree) goes moot the
instant you continue with you diatribe on "ikooks".

...

[Wally J]

Post by Carlos E. R.
your previous claim (with which I probably agree) goes moot the
instant you continue with you diatribe on "ikooks".

Hi Carlos,
I'm happy you agree that I strive to understand these strange iKooks.
I can explain to you _why_ I expose the iKooks for what they are.

Think of it this way...

a. You're walking around town and you just helped a little old
lady cross the street, and you were helped, in turn, as cars
stopped to let you use the crosswalk when it was your turn.

b. You see... across the intersection, near the Apple store,
these ignorant rude low-IQ uneducated people pushing little
old ladies down on the ground and kicking their tiny poodle.

Day in, and day out, you see there is a special type of patently
unprepossessing person who hangs out outside the Apple store daily.

Their main trait is that they are desperate to defend Apple to the death.

... but what's worse...

They do not want to help anyone - and in fact - they'll brazenly lie to
anyone asking for help if that help points out a flaw in Apple product.

As an example, how many times has Jolly Roger lied about Apple support?
How many times has nospam lied about apps that he fabricated existing?
How many times has Alan Browne lied about Apple's infamous walled garden?

These iKooks have only one goal - which is to defend Apple to the death.
None of them care one bit about anyone other than defending Apple's honor.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Wally J

I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)

Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.

It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.

The GIMP is a wondrous tool - but hard to use for people like JR.

Nah. GIMP is a toy in comparison to Photoshop, and it's not hard to use,
just extremely limited in comparison.

Post by Wally J
What's also wonderful - just as free - and easy to use - is Paint.NET.

Also extremely limited in comparison - it's a toy.

Post by Wally J
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.

LOL... good one. 🤣